been watching the rick warren saddleback presidential forum. i say this as someone who has regarded all the major-party candidates in the general presidential elections stretching at least to 1988 with contempt: these two guys are extremely impressive, sharp, and shockingly direct. not that there weren't evasions etc, but precious few, and in both cases there were moments of direct reality. they're very very different sorts of persons, but i just vibe that they're basically good people. either might make a really good president, if you like that sort of thing.